Friday, August 3, 2007

The 1 वेदस् दिविसिओंस Divisions,

The One Veda Divisions

Is there any rule in Hinduism that Vedas be only divided in 4,5,6,7 etc? Vyasa divided it into 4 for everyones benefit. But is that a hard and fast fact that there be only 4 divisions. What if others have only recited the 1st one itself and like it that way. It was also quoted at places that Vyasa tried other permutations and combinations. So, why only mention 4 predominantly?BalanceRestored 08:10, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Veda Classification

Changed the heading of the topic from 4 Vedas to Veda Classification to understand that the actual Veda is being simplified and not four different vedas where written/created. The mentioning of 4 vedas passes the message that 4 vedas where created. The fact is that 4 Vedas where classified from a main Veda.BalanceRestored 10:16, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

What do reliable sources generally say about the Vedas and their numbering? That is what we should report in this article, regardless of how "true" that is, or not. Vassyana 15:32, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
the topic of this article are the four canonical Vedas, in Vedic Sanskrit, dating to the Vedic period. There are other things called "Veda", which is why we have Veda (disambiguation), but they do not fall within the scope of this article. dab (𒁳) 20:46, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
Well I will need to check for sources about the Main Veda being divided, to check the same about various permutations and combinations made by vyasa, one can visit Vyasa, it is written that "Twenty-eight times have the Vedas been arranged by the great Rishis in the Vaivasvata Manvantara... and consequently eight and twenty Vyasas have passed away; by whom, in the respective periods, the Veda has been divided into four. The first... distribution was made by Svayambhu (Brahma) himself; in the second, the arranger of the Veda (Vyasa) was Prajapati... (and so on up to twenty-eight)." so, writing 4 Vedas at the Vedas passes the messages that there where 4 different Vedas written.BalanceRestored 06:06, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
Got the source,
Vyasa compiles the four Vedas (Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.4.15–25)
  • Vyasa foresaw the degradation of Kali-yuga
  • He divides the Vedas into four parts
  • The 108 Upanisads: philosophical discourses are part of the Vedas
  • Then the fiftth Veda: the 17 Puranas (except Srimad-Bhagavatam) and Mahabharata (includes Bhagavad-gita) (Again the fifth Veda, the further comments after ":" seems to be interpretation, need to check)
  • Vedanta-Sutra, the essence of the philosophy (Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.5.4)
  • Srimad-Bhagavatam, the ripened fruit, the natural commentary of Vedanta Sutra (Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.5)
First he [Krishna-dvaipayana Vyasa] divided the Vedas into four, then he explained them in the Puranas, and for less capable people he wrote the Mahabharata. In the Mahabharata there is given the Bhagavad-gita. Then all Vedic literature is summarized in the Vedanta-sutra, and for future guidance he gave a natural commentation on the Vedanta-sutra, called Srimad-Bhagavatam” (Bhagavad-gita Intro)
The Lord [Caitanya] continued: "Srila Vyasadeva has summarised the direct meanings of the mantras in the Upanisads in the Vedanta-sutra.”
Source: BalanceRestored 06:25, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
Now if "Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone" is for simplification divided in to "Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone - Vol 1", "Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone - Vol 2", "Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone - Vol 3", should the book name be changed to "Vol 1", "Vol 2", "Vol 3". Now what if during the 28 classifications done by Vyasa some have accepted to recite the Vedas Vols as 5, and some have accepted to recite the Vedas Vols as 4????BalanceRestored 06:31, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
So the inference I can draw from my logic is there is only "1 Veda" others Rig, Sam, Yaj, Art, Iti, etc etc are simplifications of the main Veda. Infact should not be called Veda also, they are volumes/classification of Veda, writing 4 Vedas and being hard and fast at it is not correct. Physics, Chemistry, Biology etc, etc are different divisions of science. Now, Natyasastra is a division of veda that talks about dance. The Sthapatya veda teaches all things related to Architecture. There can be 1000's of difference simplification derived from the main Veda. So, Vyasa divided 4 he could. Now what if others wanted to divide that in to many other volumes???BalanceRestored 06:41, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
Unlike the word science, Veda in simple words mean "Knowledge", I can use my mind and create any knowledge. Why only 4 knowledge, is that good enough to cover everything in the world.??BalanceRestored 07:13, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
Upa Veda means, something that is derived from? Natyashastra cannot be derived from any of the 4 Vedas. So, it is the main one. Similarly there can be other Main knowledges that cannot be derived from the only 4 knowledges. So, just staying hard and fast on the 4 main divisions for knowledges it self is incorrect. Kindly everyone behave a bit logically instead of making the knowledge a rule. This is why there are so many problems on earth. Being hard and fast at 4 divisions and telling that this is Hindusim, is teaching wrong. This is a big loop hole then. Again for all the critics this is not what's actually taught. People are interpreting things wrong.BalanceRestored 07:47, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
This could be the truth, The first veda is pranava (AUM) veda, that is the whole knowledge of the world. The Rig, Sam, Yaj, Arth are only the 1st level 4 divisions of the main knowledge. But, it is quite apparent that there could easily more first level divisions to the main knowledge. BalanceRestored 07:52, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
Vishwakarmas have always protested the only 4 divisions of the Vedas you can check things. So, please include what we have done all these years also. So, just telling that Hinduism is with loop holes just because some interpret it foolishly and teach wrong is wrong. Please comment.BalanceRestored 07:56, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
So, the Vishwakarmas obey the 4 divisions of Vedas and also the 1st one AUM and so, to avoid any loop holes. Now what exactly the main saints at my community do obey, I do not really know. I need to find out. This is only my personal interpretation. BalanceRestored 07:58, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
The society is not just made of the teachers, they are made of everyone. So, is Hinduism, just because 1 section is interpreting things wrong. Does not mean everyone is and the entire Hinduism is. So, critics kindly consider us too before you draw conclusions. BalanceRestored 08:14, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
Also, if some scholar can explain how the 1st 4 divisions are 100% complete. I will change my personal views too.BalanceRestored 08:16, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

The 4 divisions are not "100% complete", they are simply what is conventionally understood by the term "Veda". Wikipedia is about verifiability, not "Truth". If you are looking for "Truth", don't read an encyclopedia, ask a guru. Other meanings go to Veda (disambiguation). The article on Aum is at Aum: If you can document how Aum came to be considered the "first Veda", you are free to do that, at Aum. dab (𒁳) 08:27, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

"Hey Bhagwan" (OH GOD) "Eka eva pura vedah pranavah sarva-vangmayah", Srimad-Bhagavata., Exact translation is Eka=One Pura=Complete Vedah=Veda Pranavah="Pranava Veda" sarva-vangmayah=all-vangmayah. is this not there in Srimad-Bhagavata?BalanceRestored 08:31, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
Isn't this already documented?BalanceRestored 08:32, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
Now what I was pointing out isn't it logical?BalanceRestored 08:33, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
I am just trying to write for such a long time, is first understand things and then quote them properly. They are just documented perfectly. Just we need to learn to read that properly.BalanceRestored 08:34, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

sigh, that's why we have the policy of WP:RS. You are supposed to study reliable sources first, and then report on them. You still seem to fail to understand what Wikipedia is about, we are not looking for "truth". What you want to discuss is a valid topic, but it belongs on Vedanta, since it is unrelated to the Vedas themselves. That said, we could add a "Brahmanas" section here, and I am sure you can find enough mysticism in the Brahmanas already. But I am afraid the Puranas are really offtopic. dab (𒁳) 08:40, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

You mean to say I will need to find another WP:RS book that has already interpreted "Eka eva pura vedah pranavah sarva-vangmayah", Srimad-Bhagavata., Exact translation is Eka=One Pura=Complete Vedah=Veda Pranavah="Pranava Veda" sarva-vangmayah=all-vangmayah. as the source of Pranava, being the complete Veda to add a section at wikipedia, if a entire community in India follow the same, to make hinduism 100%.? Even if the Srimad-Bhagavata is clearly talking things, and is blunt clear. Well now what do I say. I really don't know any, I have already pointed out that if the main veda is included as well as the 4 divisions only then that makes sense. Now you all mention it or not, it is up to you all :)I will surely write that at my blog, Atleast I am free to do that. BalanceRestored 09:35, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
you misunderstand. This isn't the Hinduism article, where discussion of Puranas would be perfectly alright. You are suppposed to find an academic source that pushes back the concept of "Pranava Veda" to the Vedic period. That is, to the Shrauta Sutras at the very latest. The Srimad-Bhagavata isn't Vedic, and is hence irrelevant here, ok? dab (𒁳) 09:42, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Wednesday, August 1, 2007


Things collected so far about the 5 Vedas
  1. There are various texts that talk about the Vedas being 5 in number. Arthasastra (1.3.1-2) says that there are five Vedas. Mahabharata said to be written by Vyasa, says that Vyasa taught one more Veda to his own son Shuka. Written at Mahabharata Shanti Parva 335-40

  2. The Religious Authority of the Mahabharata: Vyasa and Brahma in the Hindu Scriptural Tradition, Journal of the American Academy of Religion, Vol. 62, No. 2 (Summer, 1994), pp. 377-401, Bruce M. Sullivan it quotes "Arthasastra (1.3.1-2) says that there are five Vedas."
  3. "Mysore State Gazetteer", Printed by the Director of Print., Stationery and Publications at the Govt. Press (1965), Page 220 says The Panchals are said to follow five Vedas (instead of the standard four), the fifth being the "Pranava Veda"
  4. Pages indexed in google for the term "5 Veda" [8] 700+
  5. Pages indexed in google for the term "fifth veda" 11,700. There are various assumptions for the same.
  6. Skanda Purana the biggest among the Puranas clearly mentions the original people to whom the 5 Vedas belonged (Still to confirm this) The verses are as follows "RugVaid Manushchaiva, YajurVaid Mayasthata, Tvastrana SamaVaid, Cha Arthavarn Shilpi Kasthata || Vishwagnya Pranava Vaid Cha Pancha Vaidantu Brahamanaha"
  7. "Shri Kanchi Kamakoti Peetham" says "There are five Vedas if you reckon the Yajur Veda to be two with its Sukla and Krsna divisions." so they agree that there are 5 vedas, the sentence is very much "confused" looks like the sage knows there are 5 vedas. [9]
  8. "Psychic Science April 1931 to January 1932", Stanley De Brath, Published 2004 Kessinger Publishing, New Age / Parapsychology, ISBN 1417978155. Says "The Newest Physics", "A remarkable little book a new astronomy and cosmic Physicology "merely to introduce the larger work" page 122. The author G. E. Sutcliffe claims that in is based on a method entirely new in Europe. This method is said to be contained in the Pranava Veda, A Sanskrit text from the East.
  9. "Eka eva pura vedah pranavah sarva-vangmayah", Srimad-Bhagavata., Exact translation is Eka=One Pura=Complete Vedah=Veda Pranavah="Pranava Veda" sarva-vangmayah=all-vangmayah. Now people who read this line from Srimad-Bhagavata and still say , NO NO NO or write something else, which is 100% crystal clear, I think they need a doctor. My friends we all agree that Vyasa divided the 4 vedas from some big text (Veda) to simplify it. It was the pranava veda he did that from. Now, this is what people say and talk about. Truth needs to be found, this is what something that's commonly talked. Again.. there's something else also about Pranava Veda that sounds silly.. but I will keep that a secret. Ok, you all scholars, great editors, which TEXT VYASA DIVIDED to make that simple? IT WAS THE VEDA so which VEDA? does anyone know that?BalanceRestored 10:20, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Vyasa has said to have divided the Vedas in 1180 Saakaas and each shaka is associated with a Upanishads. So there should be 1180 Saakaas in all. Now why are there only 108 Upanishads today?? BalanceRestored 09:12, 28 July 2007 (UTC)


One can only see truth if one is not biased. If I keep thinking that I am a Vishwakarma, I will see the truth around the same. So, if I edit the article Veda, I am surely going to edit article with a selfish motive that I do talk more about Vishwakarmas. But this is literally been done by everyone at Then how to reach to the truth?
  1. Think with a open mind
  2. Think what you think is right
  3. Think what the other person think is also right
  4. Push your thoughts towards the truth, it is ok, if you are selfish about the same
  5. But if proven faulty accept the same and move ahead
  6. Don't accept the false at no time be 100% sure false is false
  7. Reverify that things are false, things what you seem correct can be wrong again after some time

In search of the truth.

I am in search of the truth. I have certain questions to ask everyone

Do you all know the following?
Who are you?
What are you?
What are you made of?
Why are you born?
What are you going to die?
What is Veda?

If you know the answers for any. Kindly comment.